Erin Michelle Sky
Interview Posted By: Ashley Smith
1. Can you tell us a little about your background? i.e. Where you grew up, what education do you have, a summary of your resume, did you always want to do what you are doing now, when did you start to become interested in STEM, what internships/ volunteering
I grew up in the suburbs of New Jersey. My father was an electrical engineer with what was Bell Labs at the time, and I used to love the rare occasions when I could go to work with him and see all the amazing things being developed there, like the Skype / FaceTime technologies people use today! I was discovered by The Johns Hopkins University during a kind of talent search they conducted when I was 13 years old and was invited to attend JHU's CTY summer programs, where I first discovered computer science. I studied math and computer science there for several summers, and the summer I turned 16 I was offered a job there as a teaching assistant. So my very first job was teaching Computer Science for the Johns Hopkins University's summer program for kids. I ended up teaching math for them as well after a few years. It was an amazing job, and I loved every minute of it!
My resume is a bit unusual, in that I have done a lot of different things over the years, but here is the summary, as you requested. I received my BA from Simon's Rock in Intercultural Studies, my MBA from Georgia Tech with specialties in Marketing and Strategic Management, and my JD (law degree) from Emory University. I would have loved to earn a degree in Computer Science, but I went to a very small school with no real computer science program. That was a real mistake for me, so one piece of advice I would have for others is to research the colleges you are interested in and make sure they have a wide variety of STEM degree programs and courses available! (I went to college at 15, which was only a mistake because of the college I went to, but I did not know any better at the time. I'm not saying anything bad about Simon's Rock, per se, it just did not suit my STEM interests and abilities.)
When I graduated from the MBA program at Georgia Tech, I went to work for BellSouth in Georgia as the marketing manager responsible for the development of the Internet Yellow Pages. This was at a time when very few people even knew what the Internet was, so the development process was all very cutting edge at the time and very exciting! I worked there for several years, but then my boss and mentor died of cancer, and I felt pretty lost after that. He had been my biggest champion in the company's administration, so when he passed away I lost a lot professionally as well as personally. I was passed up for a Vice-President position and was pretty hurt about it because the company offered me a job overseeing data entry instead, which sounded just awful. When I received a scholarship offer to go to Emory Law School for free, I took it, not out of any real desire to go to law school I think but to try to make a break from what had become a painful situation. I really missed my mentor, and the job just wasn't the same after he was gone.
After law school I tried working for a big law firm in the city, but I hated it. I felt like the law firm was more interested in making money than in helping its clients. Don't get me wrong, making money is important! We all have to make a living! But if I don't feel like the work I'm doing is making a positive difference in the world, my heart just isn't in it. So I moved out to the country and started my own law firm. Most of the work I do there involves representing kids and families in juvenile court. But what, I hear you asking, does that have to do with STEM careers? Well, about the time I moved out to the country, my mother wanted a particular app for her iPad, and we couldn't find one in the App Store, so I bought a couple of books on iOS programming and in my spare time I wrote the app for her. So at the same time that I started the law firm, I also started a company called Trash Dogs LLC which produces iOS apps. Since I had taught computer science every summer for so many years, learning a new programming system was not especially difficult, and even though I have to do it in my spare time, I still love it!
So did I always want to be a lawyer? No, and I still don't really. So there's another piece of advice: don't start a college program, even for free, unless it's something you really enjoy doing. It's one thing to like learning something. I like learning just about anything. But it's another thing entirely to like doing something. Make sure whatever you study in school is something you like doing, not just something you like learning! Did I always want to be a computer scientist? Not exactly, but I always loved doing it, so the Trash Dogs work is a lot of fun!
2. What exactly IS your job? What do you do on a day to day basis?
For Trash Dogs, I do a little of just about everything! Owning your own tech company is very different than having a tech job within someone else's company. Of course I do a lot of programming, but I also create app concepts with the design team, hire artists, keep the accounts, pay the bills, prep the apps for the App Store, keep the business licenses up to date every year, and lots of other things that aren't very technical at all. So if you really only like STEM kinds of work, let someone else run the company and stick to programming or research or whatever STEM path you enjoy. You will be a lot happier doing what you love. But if you think running a company sounds exciting, it can be! Just be prepared for a lot of work and potentially a lot of pressure. If you can start a company while living with your parents or friends, while you are still young, without children to support, trust me it's a lot easier than starting later in life. You can still do it at any time; I started Trash Dogs when I was over 40! But it's a lot more difficult once you have so many other priorities in life that you have to balance.
3. How does STEM relate to your job?How do you use the information you learned from your degree in your job?
I don't. That's one huge benefit of starting your own company: no one can tell you that you don't have the right degree for your job! I use things I learned in the Johns Hopkins University's summer programs every day. I never got a degree in it, but that didn't stop me from being able to pick up a book and learn something new. No one can ever stop you from learning new things, and you can always find a way to use them if you really want to. So if you started out on a track you don't like, it's not too late! Go learn something you love, even if you have to do it in your spare time, and then find a way to use it!
4. Have you faced any discrimination/ challenges being a woman in a stem field? If so, how did you deal with it? Do you have any advice for up and coming women in STEM?
Some. I don't think discrimination against women in the work place is limited to STEM careers. I once had an executive at BellSouth tell me that I was "insecure" because he asked me to profile the right person for a certain marketing job, and I told him that it should be someone with sales experience in the paper Yellow Pages so that the sales team would respect him or her. The executive thought I should have told him that I should have the job, even though there was a good reason why it should be someone from the sales team! I honestly think if a man had told him what I told him, he would have considered that man a good "team player" and would have commended him for being so honest and not trying to get the position for himself. In the end, they actually hired someone exactly like the profile I gave him, so I guess he ended up deciding I was right, after all. But hearing him chastise me for giving him my honest opinion really hurt at the time.
That said, I don't think there is a lot of discrimination like that out there anymore. If you find yourself working for a dinosaur who still doesn't think women can work in STEM fields, the problem is that one person, not STEM careers in general. Find a way to work for someone else, whether it's by changing to a new position in the same company or by looking for a job somewhere else. I remember once in college, when I was taking the one computer science class the school offered at the time, I came into the classroom and overheard two guys in the class arguing over which one was better at programming. One was saying he had done so well on this assignment, and the other was saying he did so well on that test, etc. I didn't say anything, but they kept going back and forth, even after the professor had walked in to start the class. The professor ended the argument by saying, "Neither one of you is the best." He pointed at me and said, "She's better than both of you put together. She's the best student in the class. So both of you sit down and knock it off." So not every man has trouble seeing STEM talent in women! If you aren't happy with your boss, find one you're happy with. Nothing is better for your career than a boss who can see your talent and potential!
5. What is the best and worst part of your job? What do you look forward to in your job on a day to day basis? What do you wish you could change?
The worst part of my job is discovering a programming bug I can't track down. The best part is finally sleuthing out the problem and solving it, like a programming detective! Once the app had a bug where it kept crashing, but it didn't seem to happen at any particular time. Sometimes it worked just fine, then other times it would quit unexpectedly with no obvious explanation. Those bugs are the worst, when they aren't consistent, because it makes them very hard to isolate if you can't always duplicate the problem! But solving those kinds of problems makes me so happy!
I also remember one where we released a new version of the app, and we got a support email from someone within just a few minutes saying that the program didn't work if you turned the device over. Well, of course we had tested that a million times and it had always worked! But it turned out that our testers had been using a physical keyboard with the device, and if you took the keyboard off, the device's on-screen keyboard was what wasn't working if you turned the device upside down. So we never saw it happen in all our testing! I fixed the problem and resubmitted it to the App Store within about 30 minutes, but it just goes to show you, no matter how hard you work on a project, it's always possible to overlook something obvious! So that's another piece of advice: no matter how smart you are, always remember to value other people's input. Everyone in the world has a unique perspective, and you never know when someone else's perspective is going to be exactly what you need to solve a problem
6. How do you balance your work and personal life? Any secrets or advice you’d like to share?
I work at home. Not everyone can do that, but it really helps if you can. This morning I am answering this email at my kitchen table in my pajamas! I started working at 8:00, answered law emails first, then started this, pausing in the middle to empty the dishwasher and load it again with breakfast dishes, to hug my daughter good-bye before she left for school, and to answer the phone for a client who had a question about our meeting this afternoon. Sometimes I get up as early as 4:00 or 5:00 am to get everything done, but that's uncommon. Usually I can get to work by 8:00 and still be done with everything by 5:00 so I can spend time with my family.
My best advice: keep a detailed calendar and put everything on it, both business and personal, and go over the next few days every night before you go to bed. For me, it helps me wake up with the day already"in my head," so I can hit the ground running and not waste time trying to figure out what I should prioritize first. Like this morning, I didn't necessarily plan on answering this email today, but I knew I had time when I finished answering my professional emails early. You don't have to schedule every single thing down to the last second, but you have to knew each day all the things that must get done, so you always know whether you have time to handle other things as they come up, or whether you need to put them on the calendar for later.
7. What do you define success as?
Being happy! For work, I'd define success as doing something I enjoy doing that contributes in some way to other people.
8. What is one personality trait that you think is universally important for a successful career?
Diligence. Work hard. Work smart. Be diligent and thorough. Follow through on things. If someone is supposed to get something to you, put it on your calendar to ask them about it if you don't have it by a certain day. If there is an extra something you could do to make your work better that you don't have to do, do it. Care about the quality of your work. Then, at the end of the day, forget about it. Go wind down and think about something else so your mind can rest. Have fun. Tomorrow, be diligent again. Do that every day.
9. Who was a mentor to you throughout your career? (can be more than one!) What did they teach you? How did they impact your life?
My boss at BellSouth was a real mentor to me. The most important thing I want to point out is that he was a man. A lot of women want to find a female mentor because they think only a woman can mentor a woman. That is not the case. Some women are wonderful mentors. Some men are wonderful mentors. Don't cut out half the population from being a mentor just because of their gender. That's no better than someone else thinking women should not go into STEM careers!
I love being a woman. I love being a wife and a mother. And my life also wouldn't be even half as complete without my husband. Men and women have different perspectives, but that's a good thing. Remember, sometimes you need a different perspective to solve a problem! So if there is a man at your school or work whom you respect, someone who is willing to be a genuine mentor to you, who appreciates your mind and is willing to help guide your career, don't shut him out because he's not a woman. Navigating a career is a real challenge. Take all the well-meaning help you can get!
10. What do you think is the best advice you've ever received ? What advice would you give your younger self if you had the chance? What’s one piece of advice you can pass on to us?
I've tried to include advice where it occurred to me. The one piece of advice I will never forget came from a total stranger at Chicago's O'Hare Airport. He was newly married after having been previously divorced, and he was very happy. He seemed so happy, in fact, that I had to ask him--I was about 18 at the time--how he would describe the difference between his former marriage and his new marriage, so that I would know how to pick the right husband the first time! He said it was easy: he married his first wife because he could see himself living with her; he married his second wife because he could not see himself living without her. I think the same can be said for careers.
Choosing a career is a lot like choosing a husband, in that if you choose well the first time, it will be yours forever! So don't pick a career just because the classes are easy, or because it's the major you already have the most credits in, or because you guess you can see yourself doing it. Think about all the things you enjoy in school--and in the rest of your life, too--and ask yourself which one you would miss the most if you could never do it again. Remember, not just never learn it again, never do it again. Whatever that thing is, choose that one for your career. That's the thing you can't live without!
I grew up in the suburbs of New Jersey. My father was an electrical engineer with what was Bell Labs at the time, and I used to love the rare occasions when I could go to work with him and see all the amazing things being developed there, like the Skype / FaceTime technologies people use today! I was discovered by The Johns Hopkins University during a kind of talent search they conducted when I was 13 years old and was invited to attend JHU's CTY summer programs, where I first discovered computer science. I studied math and computer science there for several summers, and the summer I turned 16 I was offered a job there as a teaching assistant. So my very first job was teaching Computer Science for the Johns Hopkins University's summer program for kids. I ended up teaching math for them as well after a few years. It was an amazing job, and I loved every minute of it!
My resume is a bit unusual, in that I have done a lot of different things over the years, but here is the summary, as you requested. I received my BA from Simon's Rock in Intercultural Studies, my MBA from Georgia Tech with specialties in Marketing and Strategic Management, and my JD (law degree) from Emory University. I would have loved to earn a degree in Computer Science, but I went to a very small school with no real computer science program. That was a real mistake for me, so one piece of advice I would have for others is to research the colleges you are interested in and make sure they have a wide variety of STEM degree programs and courses available! (I went to college at 15, which was only a mistake because of the college I went to, but I did not know any better at the time. I'm not saying anything bad about Simon's Rock, per se, it just did not suit my STEM interests and abilities.)
When I graduated from the MBA program at Georgia Tech, I went to work for BellSouth in Georgia as the marketing manager responsible for the development of the Internet Yellow Pages. This was at a time when very few people even knew what the Internet was, so the development process was all very cutting edge at the time and very exciting! I worked there for several years, but then my boss and mentor died of cancer, and I felt pretty lost after that. He had been my biggest champion in the company's administration, so when he passed away I lost a lot professionally as well as personally. I was passed up for a Vice-President position and was pretty hurt about it because the company offered me a job overseeing data entry instead, which sounded just awful. When I received a scholarship offer to go to Emory Law School for free, I took it, not out of any real desire to go to law school I think but to try to make a break from what had become a painful situation. I really missed my mentor, and the job just wasn't the same after he was gone.
After law school I tried working for a big law firm in the city, but I hated it. I felt like the law firm was more interested in making money than in helping its clients. Don't get me wrong, making money is important! We all have to make a living! But if I don't feel like the work I'm doing is making a positive difference in the world, my heart just isn't in it. So I moved out to the country and started my own law firm. Most of the work I do there involves representing kids and families in juvenile court. But what, I hear you asking, does that have to do with STEM careers? Well, about the time I moved out to the country, my mother wanted a particular app for her iPad, and we couldn't find one in the App Store, so I bought a couple of books on iOS programming and in my spare time I wrote the app for her. So at the same time that I started the law firm, I also started a company called Trash Dogs LLC which produces iOS apps. Since I had taught computer science every summer for so many years, learning a new programming system was not especially difficult, and even though I have to do it in my spare time, I still love it!
So did I always want to be a lawyer? No, and I still don't really. So there's another piece of advice: don't start a college program, even for free, unless it's something you really enjoy doing. It's one thing to like learning something. I like learning just about anything. But it's another thing entirely to like doing something. Make sure whatever you study in school is something you like doing, not just something you like learning! Did I always want to be a computer scientist? Not exactly, but I always loved doing it, so the Trash Dogs work is a lot of fun!
2. What exactly IS your job? What do you do on a day to day basis?
For Trash Dogs, I do a little of just about everything! Owning your own tech company is very different than having a tech job within someone else's company. Of course I do a lot of programming, but I also create app concepts with the design team, hire artists, keep the accounts, pay the bills, prep the apps for the App Store, keep the business licenses up to date every year, and lots of other things that aren't very technical at all. So if you really only like STEM kinds of work, let someone else run the company and stick to programming or research or whatever STEM path you enjoy. You will be a lot happier doing what you love. But if you think running a company sounds exciting, it can be! Just be prepared for a lot of work and potentially a lot of pressure. If you can start a company while living with your parents or friends, while you are still young, without children to support, trust me it's a lot easier than starting later in life. You can still do it at any time; I started Trash Dogs when I was over 40! But it's a lot more difficult once you have so many other priorities in life that you have to balance.
3. How does STEM relate to your job?How do you use the information you learned from your degree in your job?
I don't. That's one huge benefit of starting your own company: no one can tell you that you don't have the right degree for your job! I use things I learned in the Johns Hopkins University's summer programs every day. I never got a degree in it, but that didn't stop me from being able to pick up a book and learn something new. No one can ever stop you from learning new things, and you can always find a way to use them if you really want to. So if you started out on a track you don't like, it's not too late! Go learn something you love, even if you have to do it in your spare time, and then find a way to use it!
4. Have you faced any discrimination/ challenges being a woman in a stem field? If so, how did you deal with it? Do you have any advice for up and coming women in STEM?
Some. I don't think discrimination against women in the work place is limited to STEM careers. I once had an executive at BellSouth tell me that I was "insecure" because he asked me to profile the right person for a certain marketing job, and I told him that it should be someone with sales experience in the paper Yellow Pages so that the sales team would respect him or her. The executive thought I should have told him that I should have the job, even though there was a good reason why it should be someone from the sales team! I honestly think if a man had told him what I told him, he would have considered that man a good "team player" and would have commended him for being so honest and not trying to get the position for himself. In the end, they actually hired someone exactly like the profile I gave him, so I guess he ended up deciding I was right, after all. But hearing him chastise me for giving him my honest opinion really hurt at the time.
That said, I don't think there is a lot of discrimination like that out there anymore. If you find yourself working for a dinosaur who still doesn't think women can work in STEM fields, the problem is that one person, not STEM careers in general. Find a way to work for someone else, whether it's by changing to a new position in the same company or by looking for a job somewhere else. I remember once in college, when I was taking the one computer science class the school offered at the time, I came into the classroom and overheard two guys in the class arguing over which one was better at programming. One was saying he had done so well on this assignment, and the other was saying he did so well on that test, etc. I didn't say anything, but they kept going back and forth, even after the professor had walked in to start the class. The professor ended the argument by saying, "Neither one of you is the best." He pointed at me and said, "She's better than both of you put together. She's the best student in the class. So both of you sit down and knock it off." So not every man has trouble seeing STEM talent in women! If you aren't happy with your boss, find one you're happy with. Nothing is better for your career than a boss who can see your talent and potential!
5. What is the best and worst part of your job? What do you look forward to in your job on a day to day basis? What do you wish you could change?
The worst part of my job is discovering a programming bug I can't track down. The best part is finally sleuthing out the problem and solving it, like a programming detective! Once the app had a bug where it kept crashing, but it didn't seem to happen at any particular time. Sometimes it worked just fine, then other times it would quit unexpectedly with no obvious explanation. Those bugs are the worst, when they aren't consistent, because it makes them very hard to isolate if you can't always duplicate the problem! But solving those kinds of problems makes me so happy!
I also remember one where we released a new version of the app, and we got a support email from someone within just a few minutes saying that the program didn't work if you turned the device over. Well, of course we had tested that a million times and it had always worked! But it turned out that our testers had been using a physical keyboard with the device, and if you took the keyboard off, the device's on-screen keyboard was what wasn't working if you turned the device upside down. So we never saw it happen in all our testing! I fixed the problem and resubmitted it to the App Store within about 30 minutes, but it just goes to show you, no matter how hard you work on a project, it's always possible to overlook something obvious! So that's another piece of advice: no matter how smart you are, always remember to value other people's input. Everyone in the world has a unique perspective, and you never know when someone else's perspective is going to be exactly what you need to solve a problem
6. How do you balance your work and personal life? Any secrets or advice you’d like to share?
I work at home. Not everyone can do that, but it really helps if you can. This morning I am answering this email at my kitchen table in my pajamas! I started working at 8:00, answered law emails first, then started this, pausing in the middle to empty the dishwasher and load it again with breakfast dishes, to hug my daughter good-bye before she left for school, and to answer the phone for a client who had a question about our meeting this afternoon. Sometimes I get up as early as 4:00 or 5:00 am to get everything done, but that's uncommon. Usually I can get to work by 8:00 and still be done with everything by 5:00 so I can spend time with my family.
My best advice: keep a detailed calendar and put everything on it, both business and personal, and go over the next few days every night before you go to bed. For me, it helps me wake up with the day already"in my head," so I can hit the ground running and not waste time trying to figure out what I should prioritize first. Like this morning, I didn't necessarily plan on answering this email today, but I knew I had time when I finished answering my professional emails early. You don't have to schedule every single thing down to the last second, but you have to knew each day all the things that must get done, so you always know whether you have time to handle other things as they come up, or whether you need to put them on the calendar for later.
7. What do you define success as?
Being happy! For work, I'd define success as doing something I enjoy doing that contributes in some way to other people.
8. What is one personality trait that you think is universally important for a successful career?
Diligence. Work hard. Work smart. Be diligent and thorough. Follow through on things. If someone is supposed to get something to you, put it on your calendar to ask them about it if you don't have it by a certain day. If there is an extra something you could do to make your work better that you don't have to do, do it. Care about the quality of your work. Then, at the end of the day, forget about it. Go wind down and think about something else so your mind can rest. Have fun. Tomorrow, be diligent again. Do that every day.
9. Who was a mentor to you throughout your career? (can be more than one!) What did they teach you? How did they impact your life?
My boss at BellSouth was a real mentor to me. The most important thing I want to point out is that he was a man. A lot of women want to find a female mentor because they think only a woman can mentor a woman. That is not the case. Some women are wonderful mentors. Some men are wonderful mentors. Don't cut out half the population from being a mentor just because of their gender. That's no better than someone else thinking women should not go into STEM careers!
I love being a woman. I love being a wife and a mother. And my life also wouldn't be even half as complete without my husband. Men and women have different perspectives, but that's a good thing. Remember, sometimes you need a different perspective to solve a problem! So if there is a man at your school or work whom you respect, someone who is willing to be a genuine mentor to you, who appreciates your mind and is willing to help guide your career, don't shut him out because he's not a woman. Navigating a career is a real challenge. Take all the well-meaning help you can get!
10. What do you think is the best advice you've ever received ? What advice would you give your younger self if you had the chance? What’s one piece of advice you can pass on to us?
I've tried to include advice where it occurred to me. The one piece of advice I will never forget came from a total stranger at Chicago's O'Hare Airport. He was newly married after having been previously divorced, and he was very happy. He seemed so happy, in fact, that I had to ask him--I was about 18 at the time--how he would describe the difference between his former marriage and his new marriage, so that I would know how to pick the right husband the first time! He said it was easy: he married his first wife because he could see himself living with her; he married his second wife because he could not see himself living without her. I think the same can be said for careers.
Choosing a career is a lot like choosing a husband, in that if you choose well the first time, it will be yours forever! So don't pick a career just because the classes are easy, or because it's the major you already have the most credits in, or because you guess you can see yourself doing it. Think about all the things you enjoy in school--and in the rest of your life, too--and ask yourself which one you would miss the most if you could never do it again. Remember, not just never learn it again, never do it again. Whatever that thing is, choose that one for your career. That's the thing you can't live without!